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MRice62377
Five for fighting
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 463
Location: Rogers
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Defensive first:
I don't live in Austin anymore. $60 in gas erases any reason to visit a less than good team. Now it's about $80. Those "handful" of games you refer to were games my son was being returned to his mother who lives well south of Austin. We were very happy when a sunday game came up on "my" weekend. I haven't lived there for four years. So yes, I don't attend every game. Someone else on this list you respect hasn't been in Austin for even longer.
My son plays hockey and has since he was two years old. Most of you remember him in a kid-carrier at the games. I've got pictures still on my cell phone of him doing circles around you and Lisa and Baily. Don't you think I want hockey in the I35 corridor? That's why I agreed with JB and went to those CP meetings. Just didn't fathom it would be another team than the Bats. CP got that deal. So, do we want hockey or only the Bats? I hope now that Bell County or Waco can do the same.
As for the Bats I've hired...you didn't mention the ones fired. I don't suck up to anyone.
You mentioned a couple skaters you consider "good people" and I agree with you on both and also agree that the list could go on forever.
This ain't about any of that. We still got hockey. It's still 1.5 hours away from here but it is gonna be there. So CP did us all a favor in that regard. No local flavor having a farm team of our beloved Stars in the Austin area? What more could you want?
Oh yeah, as for the scoring free tickets...that happened twice in all my years of Bats games. One was when ZR was back in town and bought a string for some of us originals and the other was when the Bats fell through on the "guaranteed win" game. You got those freebies also. Breaking piggy banks to watch a team in futility ain't gonna happen again. We don't have to worry about that now with the NHL connection in place.
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Heed these words, all who enter here:
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Shanny
The Goddess
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1498
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Thought I'd enter the fray.
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of us would prefer to watch the Bats and CHL hockey.
In the absence of that opportunity, I know that I am going to support whatever hockey is available.
Yes, the whole CP situation is/was rotten, but there's not one rational thing that any of us can do about it. I say rational because NOT attending hockey games for the sole reason of them being in CP is not rational.
Hockey is hockey. While I personally prefer the CHL's brand of the sport, I certainly won't turn down a local way to get my fix.
Think about it in terms of alcohol: I drink Shiner Black/Cabernet/Jack Daniels, but will make another choice if one of the above isn't available. I damn sure won't boycott the alcohol industry if an establishment fails to carry my brand.
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dfwbat
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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I'm tempted to erase all the butthurt, name calling posts that hijacked this thread worse than any Islamo-fascist ever could.
If I'm not mistaken, the thread is about CHLers flocking to Europe/UK. Sure the Bats going dark for a year has lent its fare share of players to the Exodus, but the fact that the union and the league have yet to come to terms has also led to some players leaving the U.S. Hell you can't blame the players, especially if living expenses are taken care of....with the exchange rate right now.
Is anyone on this board happy that the Bats as we know them are gone? No. Are there a few people that would rather piss on an electric fence than support the new team? Yes.
As the old cliche goes, "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade." Ron White's verson adds "And go find someone, who's life has given them vodka and have a PARTY!" You still will have hockey in the Austin area. Though it is not the team you want, it is still hockey. If you choose not to support it, so be it. If the AHL team fails due to lack of support, doesn't that make the demise of the Bats all for naught? You want to honor the memory of the Bats, but don't think you can by supporting the "Texas Stars?" Wear your Bats jersey to every game. Don't let anyone forget that the Bats were ever (t)here. But if you are a HOCKEY fan, support the Stars. For if they fail, I don't see Austin ever getting a hockey team again (other than Beer league and UT hockey). Oh, and stop with all the finger pointing, name calling 3rd grade bullshit.
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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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sipster
Two for holding
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well said. Of course, there have actually been some good points made, and this thread has been a more level-headed discussion than any other on this board regarding the new team. It isn't without it's share of sour grapes, of course.
| Quote: |
| Cedar Park screwed the Bats out of existence. This cannot be denied. The Bats would be playing hockey this coming season and many seasons in the future had Cedar Park dealt with them in good faith. Again, this cannot be denied. |
Repeating something doesn't make it true, no matter how much you might like to point fingers. The Bats screwed themselves out of existence, and most of us accept that, even if we don't like it. If you were in the negotiations, provide details, dates and names. If not, you're making suppositions.
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bk
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1034
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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So your opinion is supposed to be accepted as fact and anyone with a different opinion is supposed to provide insider details else they're liars?
How about we go with the idea that everyone here is just stating their opinion?
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“I’m so frustrated with the business. If you look at my junior stats, there’s a lot of guys that come out of juniors with those kind of stats that sign pretty big contracts.” --James Hiebert
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backupgoalie
Game Misconduct
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 586
Location: In the pipes @ Chap Ice
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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And ya'll remember opinions are like a-holes. Everybody got one.
Now back on topic. I wish the very best for the x-Bats where ever they end up.
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dfwbat
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bk wrote: |
So your opinion is supposed to be accepted as fact and anyone with a different opinion is supposed to provide insider details else they're liars?
How about we go with the idea that everyone here is just stating their opinion? |
all for it, just with a lil less personal attacks, etc.
Right now, its all he said she said shit between CP and the Bats. I've got Bob Lemon's reasons for not going with the Bats in an e-mail, Bob said they didn't feel due to their "investigations" that the Bats would be able to come up with all of the money they'd committed to. True CP crawfished, and changed some of the bid specs, etc. Show me one municipality out there that adheres 100% to bid specs and I'll show ya fantasy land.
The point is its over and done with (for now). Just getting sick of the same old song and dance, from BOTH sides of this issue. Present your opinions, but do so in a way that doesn't attack others, etc.
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icebatfan
Two for roughing
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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My wife and I have given this whole thing a lot of thought. Obviously, like the rest of you, we were devastated by the demise of the Bats and said every nasty thing you could think of about past ownership, Cedar Park, etc. etc.
But now it all boils down to this for us and I'm sure a lot of you. We love hockey and we've decided we can't penalize ourselves because we're pissed at the world about the Bats.
My house is 1 mile from the new arena. Nearly every day we drive by there and roads are appearing and the infrastructure is going in. It would be difficult to know there is pro hockey going on that close to the house and sit at home.
Will we buy season's tickets? Don't know yet. Maybe. Possibly. Probably. But we'll certainly go see some games and I'll still be writing for PHN.
I guess what we've decided is that there's no point in getting an ulcer over what we can't do anything about, so we might as well enjoy the only game in town.
Now if the Bats come back.............
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Retired!
I was tired yesterday and I'm tired again today.
Pro Hockey News Editor - CHL
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verylowpriority
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: none - that's the problem
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's a little different for me, I guess, because honestly, hockey in Cedar Park is the next worst thing to no hockey at all.
It was difficult to get to the Expo Center, but I could do it. It was harder to get to Chap, but I could do it. There's probably some way I'll figger to get to Cedar Park, at least once in a while, but it promises to be harder still.
Like I said, I've been to a total of four Express games.
And I'm not sure it's necessary to "take sides" between our prior owners and the Cedar Park powers-that-be. They all let us down, all of them. They didn't get it done. And they should have.
I was screwed either way.
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NHrow7 (1996-2006)
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bk
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1034
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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VLP when light rail gets finished you'll have a way to get to CP right?
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“I’m so frustrated with the business. If you look at my junior stats, there’s a lot of guys that come out of juniors with those kind of stats that sign pretty big contracts.” --James Hiebert
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sipster
Two for holding
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So your opinion is supposed to be accepted as fact and anyone with a different opinion is supposed to provide insider details else they're liars? |
You know what, that's fair. I wasn't there either, so what do I know. In the end, none of us know what went down. Didn't mean to call anyone out, I'm acting just as bad as the person I'm disagreeing with. In the end, we'll all make a personal call on what to do about the new team. In the end, we should all  .
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verylowpriority
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: none - that's the problem
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bk wrote: |
| VLP when light rail gets finished you'll have a way to get to CP right? |
Beat me, bk. I have no idea where the rail line is going in relation to where the arena is going. It would make sense, which is what causes me to doubt that they'll be anywhere near each other.
If I'm pissed at the prior owner for anything, it is that I warned time and again that CP was cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs, and I begged them not to put all their eggs in one basket. But I don't think they ever seriously pursued trying to put a deal together anywhere else, and when CP left them standing at the alter....the first time....they had nothing to fall back on.
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NHrow7 (1996-2006)
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icebatfan
Two for roughing
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Right now there is no light rail stop in Cedar Park because the infamous city council decided they didn't want to keep spending the money to stay in Austin Metro's sphere of influence.
But guess what! Now they're begging Austin Metro to let them back in.
If they do get a stop, it will be near 1431 and 183 or about 1.5-2.0 driving miles to the arena. The next stop (and the last on the line) is in Leander which is about 4-5 miles from the arena. There's talk of having a bus run from the rai stop to the arena, but it'll probably take the city council 3-5 years to work that out if they use their normal pace.
The train does run almost right through Block House Creek and when it crosses New Hope Drive, you're about 1/4 mile from the entrance to the arena. Maybe people could roll off there.
The light rail is expected to begin sometime between Nov 08 and Jan 09 and run on the existing tracks that parallel 183, at least from Cedar Park to Leander. Don't know where it goes south of Cedar Park.
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Retired!
I was tired yesterday and I'm tired again today.
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Batdog
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1081
Location: Tom Hicks' Small Intestine
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| sipster wrote: |
| But I'll bite. What were the numbers promised with the Ice Bats, for those of us who were a little late to this pity party? |
Here ya go, sipster. From the Hill Country News, 5/25/07:
CS&J Management
Randy Sanders, who wants to bring his Austin Ice Bats to Cedar Park, said he is ready to shed the Austin name for Cedar Park.
“We would be the Cedar Park Ice Bats,” said Sanders, one of the Ice Bats' majority owners.
Sanders indicated that the Ice Bats could continue playing as a CHL team in Cedar Park and possibly graduate to the AHL similar to the Round Rock Express going from Double-A to Triple-A.
CS&J wants to build a venue that will seat 5,000 for hockey and expand up to 7,000 for concerts. He said the design will give the arena an opportunity to expand to 8,000. In addition to hockey, CS&J said it can bring the Harlem Globetrotters, ice shows and a variety of concerts as well as civic happenings like graduations and trade shows. There would be 24 luxury suites and 400 club level seats.
The price tag for CS&J maxes out at $37 million. Of that, Sanders said, $30 million would come from the 4A Corporation and the rest would come from private funding.
Sanders said one way to continuously lure hockey fans would be to keep the Ice Bats' tradition of building each game around a theme.
The Ice Bats currently call Chaparral Ice their home, where 2,000 people can watch the game. Should the CS&J arena not open on time for the 2008-09 season, Sanders said the Chaparral Ice Center has agreed to host games until the Ice Bats move to Cedar Park
Hunt Construction would steer the building phases of the project. Sanders isn't hesitant to say why he thinks CS&J is the right group for the job.
“I think the fact that we pulled together a local investment team (CS&J) and put together what we think is a great design is why we have a solid plan,” Sanders said. “We have a team that can design it, build it and run it.”
You can get up to speed on the discussion we had about this here:
http://unsportsmanlikeconduct.freeforums.org/arena-proposals-t854.html
CS&J was prepared to fund 19% of the cost of the facility.
As you can see above, one of the partners in CS&J was Hunt construction. Hunt hosted the CP group at another facility they built in Arizona:
The Cedar Park Economic Sales Tax Corporation (4A Board) could decide upon its entertainment center developer as early as Monday when the group has its regularly scheduled meeting.
“We have it up for possible action and there's a possibility that we'll take action on selecting a developer at that meeting,” said Lowell Moore, 4A president.
There's one last deed before that meeting takes place, though. Four council members will travel to Prescott Valley, Ariz., on Saturday to get a close-up view of Tim's Toyota Center, an arena that's quite comparable to what Cedar Park is looking for, said Moore.
“I'm anxious for others to see it,” said Moore, who's already seen it once. “It's a very nice facility but not overdone. It's something we'd be proud of here in Cedar Park.”
Tim's Toyota Center broke ground in August 2005 and opened Nov. 2, 2006 - a 15-month turnaround. If hockey were to come to Cedar Park, that same rapidity would be needed for the start of the 2008-09 season, which is sometime in October.
The arena in Arizona cost $35 million and has already been used 90 days of the last six months, according to Brad Priest, director of operations of Tim's Toyota Center.
Cedar Park Mayor Bob Lemon and council members Cobby Caputo, Melissa Beaudoin and Matt Powell will fly to Prescott Valley tomorrow with City Manager Brenda Eivens, Assistant City Manager Jose Madrigal, 4A Vice President Kelly Brent, Moore, Economic Development Director Phil Brewer and Media Relations Coordinator Melanie Kliebert. They will tour Tim's Toyota Center, which the 4A Board has already visited with Councilmember Stephen Thomas.
Tim's Toyota Center was constructed by Hunt Construction, which had a representative at the May 23 proposal hearing before the 4A Board. Hunt Construction was part of the group represented by the Ice Bats of the Central Hockey League. Tim's Toyota Center's main tenant is the CHL franchise Arizona Sun Dogs. Priest said suites sold very quickly for the Sun Dogs. They began selling them in August, and by June 2006 only one suite remained.
Tim's Toyota Center may be appealing to Cedar Park for a number of reasons, including:
It seats 5,000 for hockey.
It can accommodate 6,200 for concerts.
It was financed by a combination of private and public funds.
It was rated best facility in the CHL.
The Sun Dogs averaged 4,200 in attendance for home games.
It has adult hockey leagues.
It has recreational skating.
It's hosted graduations.
It has several family programs like the circus, Disney on Ice, and Sesame Street Live.
It hosted a governor's luncheon.
It has a weekly chamber of commerce TV show.
It has hosted a Home and Garden Show.
“In my opinion, what makes our place so great is that it's state-of-the-art,” Priest said. “We can do what large venues can do but we're the right size for our community.”
http://www.hillcountrynews.com/articles/2007/07/13/news/news11.txt
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verylowpriority
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: none - that's the problem
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC, that was the SECOND time that Cedar Park left the Bats at the alter.
Face it, they just weren't going to do a deal with the Bats. Any deal.
I hope they and Tom Hicks are very happy together. And I promise to make it to at least one or two games a year.
My gut tells me that everyone is going to wind up suing each other.
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NHrow7 (1996-2006)
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staltus
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm waiting for Cedar Park to sue CS&J for not telling Lemon he was getting a lemon.
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zambonirodeo
Five for fighting
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the first time the voters rejected the Bats and the Stars. That would have given Cedar Park a team called the Ice Bats, owned by the Stars, playing in the AHL.
The second time they rejected Global Entertainment. Global lost its management contract in Colorado and both its management contract and its team in Youngstown, so they're not perfect either.
And the third time, they never actually agreed to do anything with the Bats, the Bats were just one of the three bidders. Where it got squirrelly is the Stars came in after those bidders got their due consideration. But practically speaking, there wouldn't have been any difference between accepting Norm Green's bid and deciding to switch to Hicks instead.
And VLP, obviously it wasn't gonna be any easier for you to get to Ice Bats games in Cedar Park than Stars games, you're just less motivated. Hell, I can remember when Rice was dead set against leaving the Expo Center because it was the most convenient location to Elgin.
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97
Game Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 732
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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So 8 months ago we were supposed to kiss Randy's ass because he was willing to lose $600,000 per year to keep the Bats going?
And now we are supposed to believe that Cedar Park would have been wiser to partner with that franchise than the Dallas Stars?
Okay.
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verylowpriority
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: none - that's the problem
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="zambonirodeo"]And VLP, obviously it wasn't gonna be any easier for you to get to Ice Bats games in Cedar Park than Stars games, you're just less motivated. [quote]
Correct....per my earlier comment made in the interest of full disclosure, I was going to be screwed regardless.
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NHrow7 (1996-2006)
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MRice62377
Five for fighting
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 463
Location: Rogers
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zambonirodeo wrote: |
And VLP, obviously it wasn't gonna be any easier for you to get to Ice Bats games in Cedar Park than Stars games, you're just less motivated. Hell, I can remember when Rice was dead set against leaving the Expo Center because it was the most convenient location to Elgin. |
Most definitely. Yet I did have alot of rodeo experiences in that barn. Hell, I hated the idea they'd want to use Leudeke for hockey prior to the Bats taking the ice the first time.
Expo still would be closer to me...at least timewise.
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Mike@jayhawkroofing.com
Heed these words, all who enter here:
Beware of the Phog. Rock Chalk!!!
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Batdog
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1081
Location: Tom Hicks' Small Intestine
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| 97 wrote: |
So 8 months ago we were supposed to kiss Randy's ass because he was willing to lose $600,000 per year to keep the Bats going?
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No, we weren't supposed to do anything. Each of chose our own direction. Some chose to bitch and moan about anything and everything, and some chose to enjoy what we had while we had it.
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dfwbat
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Batdog wrote: |
| 97 wrote: |
So 8 months ago we were supposed to kiss Randy's ass because he was willing to lose $600,000 per year to keep the Bats going?
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No, we weren't supposed to do anything. Each of chose our own direction. Some chose to bitch and moan about anything and everything, and some chose to enjoy what we had while we had it. |
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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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MRice62377
Five for fighting
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 463
Location: Rogers
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Batdog wrote: |
| 97 wrote: |
So 8 months ago we were supposed to kiss Randy's ass because he was willing to lose $600,000 per year to keep the Bats going?
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No, we weren't supposed to do anything. Each of chose our own direction. Some chose to bitch and moan about anything and everything, and some chose to enjoy what we had while we had it. |
Oh no. When you get a phone call daily from Buch pleading for your presence at a city meeting you don't agree with then you were "supposed" to do something.
What is it, exactly, that you are bitching about? What have you lost?
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Mike@jayhawkroofing.com
Heed these words, all who enter here:
Beware of the Phog. Rock Chalk!!!
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Batdog
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1081
Location: Tom Hicks' Small Intestine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MRice62377 wrote: |
| What have you lost? |
That lovin' feeling.
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dfwbat
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Batdog wrote: |
| MRice62377 wrote: |
| What have you lost? |
That lovin' feeling. |
Who took it from ya? Goose? Mav? Iceman? Slider? Naaaah I bet you took Merlin home and he made ya lose that lovin' feeling.
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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Batdog
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1081
Location: Tom Hicks' Small Intestine
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| dfwbat wrote: |
| Batdog wrote: |
| MRice62377 wrote: |
| What have you lost? |
That lovin' feeling. |
Who took it from ya? |
Kelly McGillis. 
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verylowpriority
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: none - that's the problem
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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ROFLMAO
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NHrow7 (1996-2006)
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MRice62377
Five for fighting
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 463
Location: Rogers
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Batdog wrote: |
| MRice62377 wrote: |
| What have you lost? |
That lovin' feeling. |
Can't believe I'm gonna type this:
"Baby, baby, get down on your knees for me"
We're all upset one way or another about the situation. Ain't gonna change it.
So, BD, get off Goose. He's dead. Wet...but still dead.
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Mike@jayhawkroofing.com
Heed these words, all who enter here:
Beware of the Phog. Rock Chalk!!!
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Batdog
Gross Misconduct
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1081
Location: Tom Hicks' Small Intestine
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MRice62377 wrote: |
| get off Goose |
What the hell is a "get off" goose? Thanks for the offer (not really) but no thanks.
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